Douglas Nunnally: How's it going, wrestling fans? We're all back with another session of The Wrestling Roundtable here. I apologize for the short absence we faced, but we are back better than ever. Unfortunately, Mike Johns is no longer with us on The Wrestling Roundtable, but don't fret, because in his place is Chris Grebe (author of The Empty Arena). In addition to him, we have our regulars of Matt Green (author of Get The 'E' Out) and Tim Wronka (author of From The Eye Of The Dragon). Joe Pritchett is in Ireland this weekend probably getting drunk, so we have Matthew Oropeza (author of Viva La Lucha) filling his shoes once again. Phew, that was long. Anyway, we'll be talking about the return of Saturday Night's Main Event today as well as take a look at the year's biggest PPV coming up, WrestleMania! All right guys, for starters, what were your thoughts on the first SNME of the new millennium?
Tim Wronka: I loved it. WWE looked very good on that night. While there was definitely more of an entertainment aspect to the show than actual wrestling, it still came off very well. The main event versus main event was very fun, and it was amazing how Cena came in getting boos and left with crowd going nuts. Edge and Foley added a lot to their feud, Austin and JBL's segment was a blast, Undertaker destroying Daivari was awesome, and the street fight was incredible with some excellent spots. It's a shame the ratings were so low, but nonetheless, it was a fun night. Oh, and it was so great to hear JR again; it's amazing how much he adds to the show.
Matt Green: I agree that this was WWE's best high profile show in a while. Everything was done right from the outset, unlike usual WWE shows where they seem to assume the only people watching the product are regular fans. Here they went straight off the bat with getting their stars over. With the whacky quick fire promos and retro music, for long time fans it brought back the memories of the original show. For new fans, it's just a fun easy way to get into the product with out any confusing angles. Everything was booked with a philosophy that this is just a taste of what you're going to get at Mania. So, in my opinion, the show was a job well done; it's just a pity the ratings didn't reflect the good work that went into the show.
Chris Grebe: First, I would like to say it's great to be on the Roundtable. Now, as it has been accustomed to say, SNME was nothing short of amazing. I was going into this show expecting a lot, and I received all of that and much more. One of the amazing things that night was how well everyone was performing. From the promos to the matches, everyone seemed to be giving it 100% that night. Plus, this show really helped WrestleMania progress their feuds, especially the main events and the Women's Championship. You could tell how well they put that card over during the reaction from the fans when they were previewing the card for Mania. All in all, the fans were hot, the matches were great, and nostalgia was running wild.
Matthew Oropeza: Well,I absolutely felt like a little boy again when the show started. The old school vignettes were more than just a trip down memory lane for me. They reminded me of when I fell in love with wrestling. The music, the old logo; it was my first true "mark out" since watching Benoit win the title at WrestleMania XX. The promos were awesome, and the WWE should be doing this promo style all the time. It's something that all fans love - a good one liner. But then they had the money match first. I understand why they did it, but I don't like it. It really made the night lose a big part of the anticipation that a awesome main event like that bring to the table. Don't blow your load in the first thirty minutes, because then you're left waiting for more for the next hour and a half. Reminded myself of my senior prom.
Douglas Nunnally: All right, well I agree with all of you. Great show and actually way better than I thought it would be. Some of you touched down on the low ratings that the special got, which I don't think anyone saw coming. Granted, it was never going to do a 5.0, but being beat out by Raw & SmackDown! was just sad. What are your thoughts on that 3.2 rating when WWE was expecting something in the high 4s or low 5s?
Matt Green: I could be wrong, but I think it dropped .1 off the 3.2 fast nationals. That just adds to the problem though. Anyway, I think the rating is a body blow for WWE getting any more shows on NBC after this contract runs out. Points that need to be made are that SNME was never going to draw 10.0 in this day and age. There are a plethora of channels nowadays that weren't available at SNME's peak. Back in the day, the show was always built around the fact of getting to see the biggest stars for free like the Hogans, Warriors, Savage etc. Also, now that WWE gives big matches away for free on TV every week as a result of the Monday Night Wars, what is the draw to watch the show? Overall, I think it was a bad rating for WWE, but I don't think it's a huge shock when you consider all the changes in angles, television, and the overall wrestling business that happened between the late 80s/early 90s and now.
Chris Grebe: There are a number of factors why the rating was down from previous SNME's. Like Matt said, in this day in age, television is cut throat and there are over 1,000 channels out there now. Second, NBC failed to advertise on their network and other affiliates. The reason RAW Homecoming did so well is probably due to the brutal advertising done by NBC. This time around, I think that WWE and NBC thought that the fans would all flock to SNME. What they failed to realize is that in this day in age, you need to advertise as much as possible. That's how you gain an interested audience of non-wrestling fans and past wrestling fans who have grown out of touch with the product.
Tim Wronka: I don't think it's fair to compare Homecoming to SNME. With Homecoming, the only things that were different were the earlier start time and, of course, the different network. For the most part, it was still a time when loyal wrestling fans were used to watching wrestling. With SNME, loyal WWE fans haven't watched wrestling on a Saturday night in a very long time, and I say WWE fans, not including the three people who watch TNA iMPACT! on Saturdays.
Douglas Nunnally: Ouch, that was low.
Matthew Oropeza: Mega awesome burn.
Tim Wronka: The point I'm trying to make is that many fans don't watch wrestling on Saturdays, and the card obviously wasn't good enough for them to change other plans to go ahead and watch it.
Matthew Oropeza: Yeah, Tim, I'm not one of those three people that typically watch TNA on Saturday night, and there's a reason for that.
Douglas Nunnally: Ditto.
Tim Wronka: Good, neither am I!
Chris Grebe: One of the reasons I have seven weeks of TNA to catch up with. [Laughs]
Matthew Oropeza: Guys ages sixteen to thirty-four don't want to be home on Saturday night at 8pm. If you are, you're what the ladies call a "loser". I have a lady, and you know what? She wants me to spend money on her at 8pm on Saturday. If you didn't have a lady, you should be out trying to find one. Anyway, so who's watching? Very few people. I'm not judging anyone, of course, but just pointing out the obvious here. NBC gave the WWE a lemon of a timeslot. That's alright, though, because they were on TV during one of the most entertaining nights that television has provided for the sixteen to thirty-four demographic and that was in the middle of March Madness (the NCAA basketball tournament) which was on in most places, having drawn one of it's best ratings ever because of some "powerhouse versus powerhouse" program games and a couple of amazing upsets. What do men do during commercials to basketball games because they are taking a time out every damn few minutes or shooting free throws? We flip. We flip to the other networks, and lo and behold, what is this? It's wrestling. Awesome. Let's watch until the next commercial. And maybe those same guys tune into RAW a couple nights later or get together to order WrestleMania. It only takes the seed to be planted. So, I think the actual rating is deceptively low compared to the mainstream exposure that SNME provided.
Douglas Nunnally: Good point, but the rating still has to be taken as a big blow like Matt Green said. I think we were all surprised to see such a low rating for such a big show. Even people against WWE could not have expected it to be that low. With that low rating on such a pivotal night where they lost to everyone else on network television, what do you think this says for the future of SNME on WWE TV or the amount of time it will get or even any attention?
Tim Wronka: Well, from what I've heard, there is another date for SNME set for July. So, if NBC is game for second chances, maybe WWE could prove to be a better draw next time around. However, if that doesn't go too well either, which I fear will be the case just because it's summer, then I think it would be safe to say any future WWE has on NBC will be in some serious jeopardy. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Chris Grebe: With the next SNME set for the middle of July, this could be the WWE's chance to redeem themselves on NBC. For their demographic, many of the students at school are off during the summer which could add to the ratings with nothing distracting their viewers. Also, as long as there aren't huge amounts of competition the night it airs, the WWE could prove that their first time around was only a fluke. With the RAW ratings increasing each week, we could see more wrestling fans tune into SNME, hopefully pushing the ratings to the high 4s and low 5s. We can only wait and see about this one though.
Matt Green: I'm not sure how many SNME shows WWE have on their contract with NBC, but I couldn't envisage it being less than four. I think the future depends on the amount of backing NBC gives WWE. If they heavily promote the whole deal and still don't break four, then there will be problems. If they don't give WWE any more promotion for the show, then I think it's just NBC sitting out the contract with no interest of keeping WWE programming on the network.
Matthew Oropeza: Okay, okay; I have here Saturday's ratings, just to show that Saturday night isn't important. Highest rated show last night? The Elite Eight portion of the NCAA tournament with a 6.1. Those were two amazing games (one that went overtime and one that went down to the wire) and they only had a 6.1. Second place: Law and Order with a 5.3. Those were the top shows of the night. Fox got a 4.2 with America's Most Wanted at 8pm. So, SNME, with very little promotion on the network and the day after St. Patrick's Day (which means many people were asleep early do the beer flu), got close to what Fox got last night at 8pm.
Tim Wronka: Damn, Oropeza breaking out the research!
Matthew Oropeza: Can they build on their number? Of course. Nothing in the Top 20 list for the last month aired on Saturday night. NBC isn't worried about it as long as it can bring bigger numbers to their baby brother, USA. It's all trickled down and it's a great investment by the network on a night where they won't make much money anyway.
Douglas Nunnally: All right, I think we've done that topic to the death, but the short summary seems to be that WWE did a good job of putting on the show, but has their work cut out for them in the future as far as ratings go. Onto the second part of today's session, it's that time of the year again; sadly not Christmas. How's everyone feeling about WrestleMania coming up and to kind of stay on point, how do you think SNME built it up?
Tim Wronka: It took me a long time, but I'm finally hyped for it! It's sad it took this long though, as I usually start looking forward to it at the Rumble, but at least I started to eventually. Anyway, SNME is actually the event that finally made me excited for it. If that was the intent of WWE doing SNME, then they did their job well. As for Mania, while the build-up has been a bit sub-par as compared to years past, I think the event will really come through and actually be a bit better than last year's WrestleMania, which had a tremendous build-up. I'm definitely ordering it and I think it will be a fun night.
Chris Grebe: While WrestleMania 22 does seem to have a less than stable buildup than it normally does, it has one of the best cards in a long time. WrestleMania XIX, one of the best WrestleMania's in history, had a few main matches that were built perfectly and a few that were "meh." You had Hogan Vs. McMahon, Shawn Vs. Jericho, Brock Vs. Angle, and Rock Vs. Austin that were the main sources of build. This year you have Shawn Vs. McMahon, the Triple Threat Match, and the Women's Championship that are the main sources of build. The rest of the card has lackluster build, but have a big opportunity to steal the show. In the end, I believe it will turn out to be one of the best Mania's in history. SNME did a very good job of getting the main WrestleMania card over.
Matthew Oropeza: I could honestly be a lot more excited, but I'm not. I'm worried. I'm worried that yes, we have this cool ass card, but that the winners of the matches will be all wrong and I'll hate the direction they are going to be going in. But, that's what being a fan is all about, and in the end, I want to see what they decide to do. That's why I'll watch. SNME helped me feel that way and I think that was the point. I want to watch. I'm worried what will happen, but I want to know. Good sell job.
Matt Green: I think in terms of showing WWE as a product, SNME did very well to hype Mania. It was balls to the wall action and was really, really fun to watch. I don't think they did a particularly great job detailing specifics with the two title matches; however, the World Heavyweight Title match was definitely redeemed on SmackDown! this week. In general, SNME gave me hope for Mania in regards to Edge/Foley specifically and HBK/Vince. I think we can consider those four matches the draw of the show and three of the four have got to a point of actually wanting people to see the show. Triple H/Cena still needs work and with Raw at the moment, I don't think we'll roll into Mania confident about that match delivering.
Douglas Nunnally: A lot of people are saying this is going to be one of the worst Manias ever. What do you guys think about that one?
Matthew Oropeza: Well, to that I say a lot of people on the internet are bitter, little cynics that have no clue what they are talking about. That "smark" mentality is one reason why I try to avoid the internet around WrestleMania, and you won't find me talking wrestling on any message boards or checking any news pages, because I don't want it spoiled with "rumors" or with people who really even shouldn't call themselves "fans" anymore who love to spout their piss poor opinions. Even at it worst, WrestleMania, in context, is always good. It's the culmination of storylines that have been progressing for months, typically. How anyone could say that it's going to be "horrible" is beyond me. To me, there's no way you can sit here and say before the day even occurs that it's "going to be the worst Wrestlemania ever" and if you are already saying that, then why even watch? You know why you'll watch? Because you never know who's going to show up and steal the show and put on the performance of their lifetime. That is why it's called WrestleMania.
Chris Grebe: Just because WrestleMania has a less than desired build up in some matches, the card is ready to deliver. John Cena finally gets to work with Triple H who tends to bring the best out of guys like Cena, and you also have the Triple Threat match with three of the best pure athletes on SmackDown! today with a story backing it up. You have an intense feud with Shawn and Vince that could end with a shocker, such as a Bret Hart appearance. All in all, there are so many legends that will be in Chicago at the time of WrestleMania 22, and who knows what's going to happen. I can guarantee something big will happen at WrestleMania. Whether it will be a Cena heel turn or a Bret Hart return, we will have to wait and see.
Matt Green: I don't think it's going to be the worst WrestleMania ever. It's going to be pretty darned hard to get that accolade off WrestleMania IX and the closest they've come to that is WrestleMania XV. If Triple H Vs. Cena is going to deliver, Triple H needs to bring his working boots and he's not been wearing them in the past five years. Only time will tell whether it will deliver or not. As for the rest of the card you have two significantly built matches (Shawn/Vince & Triple Threat) plus Edge Vs. Foley which has finally gotten some heat following SNME. It looks like Foley really wants to make Edge look like a star and I've got a feeling that it will steal the show. By no means will this be up to WrestleMania X-Seven standards, but I don't think it will drop to the awfulness of WrestleMania IX or WrestleMania XV.
Tim Wronka: Good question here, but I'm going to have to say that it definitely won't be the worst Wrestlemania. I will say in terms of build-up, it's definitely been the worst of the past five years, but the actual card is pretty stacked from top to bottom. As Matt said, Edge-Foley will be a show stealer, and the two main events show a lot of promise, as does a lot of the mid-card. I think the event will really come through, and I'm hoping it will be better than last year's.
Douglas Nunnally: Well, I think we've left a lot out on the table that will be answered this coming Sunday. We'll be back next week with a full review of WrestleMania 22 and we'll see just how it went above or below the expectations of this roundtable. Also, make sure to check out the live play-by-play review of WrestleMania 22 this Sunday by myself exclusively on The Wrestling Voice. To check out more information on that, just click here. I'd like to thank all four members and you, the reader, for joining us and here's hoping all you out there enjoy WrestleMania 22. See you next Wednesday, everyone!
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