Lee says: Firstly, I’d like to welcome Linda Robin to a grammatically correct column and say thank you for agreeing to do this shambles for, I believe, the fourth joint PPV review we’ve done?
Linda says: Thank you for inviting me back, yes the fourth one I think.
Lee says: I suppose we should start with the opening contest, an average ‘Money in the bank’ match? (if there is such a thing).
Linda says: No no, I say much more than average. A very good MITB match and a great way to open the show.
Lee says: I’ll agree with that, but did you not think the action was screaming out for a genuine high-spot wrestler like Nitro or Benjamin to give it some oomph. Other than the big Hardy spot it was mostly free of “Holy shit” moments.
Linda says: Last year I think the MITB match was better but I liked this one a lot too. Sure Benjamin, Nitro or even Chavo could have been added to it.
Lee says: To me it never seemed to click into that manic ladder-spot gear, which in my opinion is the whole point of the match. I know in the past we've talked about the WWE's ring-style being applicable to every match, regardless of stipulation, but I just felt it relied too much on the usual stuff.
Linda says: I understand what you are saying, it was like the accent really wasn't on the ladder. But it was still full of life and it got the fans going. Opening matches should do that, and it did.
Lee says: Admittedly, it did that. I was much happier with the Benoit/MVP contest. Not as spectacular obviously but a good use of appropriate talent and a well-constructed match.
Linda says: You know what? I blasted MVP Sunday in my prediction column and Sunday night, as Benoit would say, he ‘PROVED ME WRONG’. MVP did a fabulous job along with Chris and I loved the match. I was just sorry that the fans didn't get into it. I loved it.
Lee says: As ‘arse-about’ as this sounds ... it’s like a good record doing well in the charts, I’d be kind of unnerved if this match went over well with a predominantly ‘boo/hiss’ WWE audience. I think the rousing chorus of indifference was presumably a product of going from the bangs and crashes of an 8-man ladder match to something as simple as a technical contest but it did everything it was meant to do and I hope the wrestlers and the bookers aren’t put off by the reaction it received.
Linda says: Good point. Now let me ask you, did you know that MVP had ‘it’ or did he surprise you like he surprised me?
Lee says: In the comfort of a standard 10-minute television match, it is easier to hide one’s failings and my concern was that, even though MVP had shown signs of being more than the gimmick, a PPV match would find him out in front of a big audience. Luckily he shined.
Linda says: He shined big time and it really was a solid match.
Lee says: You think Benoit has another main event run in him or does he rely too heavily on a charismatic opponent that the WWE would go with other options?
Linda says: Well if it was up to me, I would put him right up there. But I have a feeling, because he's not ‘John Cena’, he's not getting that big push.
Lee says: You say that like it’s a bad thing.
Linda says: It is, isn’t it?
Lee says: Interesting, we'll come back to that later. I'm inclined to think that Benoit is better served as the main elevator of talent, just as he did at Wrestlemania. I wouldn’t begrudge him another title run but it would need to be done for a more productive reason than sentimentality.
Linda says: Yes, but what about someone like Batista? Does he have great mic skills? No. But he's in the main event picture.
Lee says: True, but then Batista isn’t a workhorse. He's got a strong enough look and sufficient sparkle to cover up for his vocal deficiencies. Benoit is too technical for that, something of which Batista definitely can’t be accused.
Linda says: You know, I wouldn't mind Benoit in the upper mid-card area if we saw him on a regular basis and if he was used in a meaningful storyline.
Lee says: Maybe they could turn Kane back into Isaac Yankem and battle over his missing tooth? Okay, a brief word on the ECW match. You think it suffered from not being a hardcore match? Seeing as it seems they saved that for the rematch this week on ECW television.
Linda says: No I liked it. It was kept to the basics yet there was a lot of energy in it. Last night's ECW rematch was more extreme and really good but I was okay with Sunday's match.
Lee says: Especially useful for the performers that could play a part in the future of WWE. It would have been a wasted opportunity to have guys that desperately need some big game experience spending it swinging garbage cans and diving through tables. You think ECW will be around long enough to have a match at next year's Wrestlemania?
Linda says: I would say chances are slim about a match for next year’s show.
Lee says: I'd say it relies more on whether Vince can stay interested in the product for long enough, regardless of audience figures. Mind you, signs are the roster split might not mean as much by 2008, seeing as the PPV's are now all multi-brand and the television shows are certainly sharing talent pretty regularly.
Linda says: I'm wondering if we will finally see the roster split end in the next few months, I know I’m ready for it.
Lee says: I have read you state that opinion a few times (See? I do read your stuff when I’ve nothing better to do). Speaking of nothing, did the sight of Vince’s hairless bonce do anything for you?
Linda says: Bonce? Someone should teach you Brits how to speak English. If you mean ‘head’, it did about as much as it should do for me. I tell you, Steve Austin saved that baby for me.
Lee says: The action was secondary to pretty much everything else on display, though I don’t think the association will do Lashley or Umaga any harm in their standing on the roster.
Linda says: I’m with you. In fact, on ECW this week Bobby got a lot of “Lashley” chants, I didn't expect the crowd to warm to him that easily.
Lee says: The only shame is that Lashley more than likely won’t benefit directly from the aftermath, I have a feeling Vince will be taking his retribution out on Raw more than anything else. Wrestlers like Austin and Rock made their popularity on Vince and it'll probably get used to build heat with established stars, when Lashley is desperately in need of some stories under his belt.
Linda says: Definitely, Rock/Austin/HHH all had strong feuds with Vince and it got them over. I don’t think Lashley will sink down to the mid-card but having Vince go after him certainly would have given him a boost.
Lee says: Would now be the ideal time to set in motion Lashley’s heel turn? Especially as the fans are starting to vociferate their support for him a bit more and the betrayal would seem more important.
Linda says: I would like that.
Lee says: Although they would need to keep up the roster sharing, I can’t think of any face on ECW that could use it at this time. Punk maybe but I'm still wary of pushing him too hard.
Linda says: Oh don't start with me with CM. I say PUSH HIM AND PUSH HIM HARD.
Lee says: But there is a way of doing things and I don’t see a guy in his rookie year getting the top spot, especially when he's not got the tools that Vince usually looks for. Punk doesn’t have the size, the skills or the impact that, for example, Brock Lesnar had. Not in my opinion.
Linda says: Yes, but if someone like John Cena is such a wonderful ‘role model’ for children, why not Punk? They could really do a lot with the ‘straight edge’ stuff. He looks anything but straight edge and that's what makes him so cool and unique. Vince could do plenty with the merchandise, plus the guy can talk and wrestle. I should be his agent.
Lee says: Well I don’t smoke, drink or take drugs ... maybe I could be a role model for children? Although my only vice isn’t competition, it's busty bimbos with a bra size higher than their IQ’s. On that subject (man, my transitions are ON FIRE tonight!), is it safe to assume that the Women’s title match was a big let down? Or should we really be surprised that it stunk?
Linda says: Well, somewhat surprised. I didn't expect much from the match itself but with all the divas out there I figured we would get something from them. I blinked and the match was over. I guess we really shouldn't complain, it was short, thankfully.
Lee says: I think the Lumber-sluts were there as a distraction from the blinding silence that would have dominated if it were just the two of them. Just way too much of a sacrifice to have Victoria and Mickie on the outside of a match containing Ashley at this stage.
Linda says: Especially seeing Mickie at ringside, that really bothered me. She should have been given Ashley's spot. Something better than just having them all stand there.
Lee says: If it's a distraction they wanted, maybe they would have been better served making it a Diva ‘battle royal’ or at least something where the unpleasantness could have been hidden more readily and just finish with Ashley/Melina left in the ring? But still totally beneath the efforts of Trish/Victoria/Jazz/Molly at previous Wrestlemania's. If they couldn’t top or equal that standard, then maybe they shouldn’t have bothered?
Linda says: True, I know Vince did this because of Ashley in Playboy but he could have come up with something instead of throwing her into a match, especially a championship match.
Lee says: Maybe just push her out there naked and stapled so the guys in the audience can disgrace themselves whilst looking at her? That would be much the same conclusion as with her Playboy appearance.
Linda says: See that's why you should be on the creative team.
Lee says: Oh definitely, there'd be a weekly ‘Maria on my pole’ match if I were GM.
Linda says: I think a lot of guys would be very happy to watch perversion like that on a weekly basis.
Lee says: More viewers than TNA for sure. Speaking of massive tools, do you think Kane did enough to justify his spot on the card in his match with Khali?
Linda says: I have to say I didn't mind that match at all, even if the ending came about rather suddenly. It was lackluster but, up until the ending, I was fine with the match and the crowd seemed into it, which surprised me.
Lee says: I suppose it is redundant to compare it to the great Wrestlemania matches of all time and, on a like-for-like basis, it was acceptable in comparison to, say, Undertaker's match at Wrestlemania 9 against Giant Gonzalez.
Linda says: I’ll have to trust you on that because I never saw the match.
Lee says: Ah, one of the lucky ones.
Linda says: Did you think Kane/Khali did a really bad job or did it come off like you expected?
Lee says: I think diversity is vital in creating a visually pleasing card and on that point alone it achieved its goal. And I guess just the fact that Khali didn’t break into a thousand tiny Punjabi pieces when Kane slammed him is a shock enough to include it on the show. The women's match was by far the worst of the bad matches just because it did nothing when it could have done so much more.
Lee says: I guess we'd better discuss the main events before we run out of things to say. Batista/Undertaker first, better than you expected?
Linda says: Oh much better than I think most of us expected. They caught me by surprise and worked a very good match. How about you, thumbs up or down?
Lee says: Definitely a thumbs up, considering the competitors. I was concerned that Taker wouldn’t have enough left to carry Batista to a championship quality match but in the end it wasn’t needed. Batista found a gear that I thought had left him with the injury last year.
Linda says: I second that remark about Batista. I haven't seen him work that hard since his matches with Triple H.
Lee says: You think any conditions were included with Undertaker's title win? It is unlikely that Vince would have been willing to put the belt on someone who was working a light schedule, even someone as popular as Taker.
Linda says: I would think Taker will show up on Smackdown weekly while he's champion. I'm not saying he'll wrestle every week but he’ll at least be on television and with the over seas trip coming up I'm sure he will not only be there but wrestle at each show.
Lee says: It is noticeable that he's got himself into fighting shape recently, something that didn’t look likely several years ago. I think this has been a carefully timed decision that could pay off, if they use it right. A final run for the dead man?
Linda says: He looked, dare I say, PHENOMENAL. I don't remember ever seeing him look that good since I've been watching WWE. A final run for him, I would say, until maybe Summerslam or possibly ending at Great American Bash in July.
Lee says: I would even go so far as to suggest that the shape he's got himself into has more to do with surviving the rigours of travel and wrestling frequently, rather than being in great shape for the big matches, so I’d say he’ll wrestle often until Summerslam.
Linda says: I just wanted to add that this match should have been the main event.
Lee says: Debatable, but certainly not pointedly kept from the closing spot. Do you think it came too early outside of the main event? It wasn’t even the halfway point of the PPV when it came on.
Linda says: Yeah I do think it came too early. But it was so outstanding that it really got the crowd going and, for me, it was the match of the night.
Lee says: Really?
Linda says: Yes really. Would you like me to tell you what I thought about Cena/Shawn or would you like to take it first?
Lee says: No I've got this (if it's okay with you?). Batista/Taker was more than expected but that for me was just in the execution of the match. Cena/HBK was equally as competently performed but it was booked so much better. It had a definite start, middle and end. Plus Cena selling the leg injury with no previous build-up was a good shift of focus. Just a better match from all points.
Linda says: I thought Cena/Shawn was good but for me it was more of a Raw match. It's funny that you mention Cena selling the leg injury because I completely disagree. I thought he not only undersold that injury but anything else Shawn did to him he just seemed to bounce right back up. This was HBK's match, he worked his ass off and in my opinion Cena was just Cena. It's not a knock on him because he tries but he wrestled like always. Nothing new at all for this big match.
Lee says: Still not unclenching your butt-cheeks about Cena then? “He tries”? You make it sound like he’s a rookie who hasn’t made anything of his career yet. Man, all it takes is a Cena win and HHH not on the show and logic goes out the window doesn’t it?
Linda says: No no. Now if you REALLY had been reading my columns in the last 4 months or so, you’d know that I have changed my mind about Cena. I’ve even said that I'm okay with him and I have been. Maybe if Cena had lost I would have felt differently about the match but his win angered me and I blame that on Vince. And yes, I'm almost back to where I was before. Cena’s bugging me again and it’s Vince’s fault for not giving us a new champion.
Lee says: His win ANGERED you??? Never thought I'd need to lecture the great Linda Robin about PRO-wrestling. It's FAKE, you know that right? I've read your stuff. And I know that you warmed to Cena. But you're a ‘Hunter-mark’, you've said it yourself. And you LOVED booing Cena at your live show recently (see? I read). You think I'm a Cena-mark for commending his performance?
Linda says: Wait a minute. This has nothing to do with Hunter and yes I know it's just wrestling but my argument is Cena has held the title for 20 months, TOO LONG FOR ME. And Shawn deserves one last title reign, just like Taker. Maybe more so. HBK returned in 2002 and, with the exception of taking time off for injuries, he just about wrestles his ass off every week. I'm telling you the fans would love it. And one more thing MISTER, all the feedback I'm receiving has been pro HBK and against Cena’s win. And this is also coming from Cena fans, they wanted to see a title change.
Lee says: Cena fans want to see a title change because they hope it'll take the heat off their man. Last time I checked this is 2007, NOT 1997. HBK/Undertaker should be getting nostalgic title runs for old time’s sake, not because they're realistic options. Cena is the champ not because of what he's got but because guys like RVD (drugs), Edge (sex), Orton (pills, attitude) and Carlito (enthusiasm) keep dropping the ball and pissing off the boss. I’m anything but a Cena-mark. But should he be blamed for the fact that his contemporaries can’t keep their eyes on the prize long enough to convince management they’re a viable alternative? I’m all in favour of seeing wrestling as an ‘art form’ but if you want the WWE to continue then you have to realise that it’s a BUSINESS. And right now Cena is the best businessman.
Linda says: Undertaker’s win might be for nostalgia’s sake but Shawn is just as good now as he was years ago and he deserves it because HE CAN WRESTLE and that's something Cena can't do. Edge didn’t drop the ball. This is just another case where I believe one of the greatest heels of all time should have had a long title reign but Vince took it off him to give it back to his money-maker. It's because Cena’s merchandise sells. He does what he's told but the guy cannot wrestle. He has charisma but he also has limited moves and those moves are all he does in every match. If his title reign continues and he keeps defeating some of the very best, you watch, the majority of fans will start becoming fed up with him and the whole title reign ‘I can beat them all’ routine. I had no idea you were part of the ‘chain gang’, do you scream when Cena takes his shirt off too?
Lee says: A ‘gay-jibe’? Have we really sunk that low? Still bashing on about Cena not being a wrestler? Sounds to me like you’re making a COMPARISON instead of a conclusion. If we’re being literal, Cena CAN wrestle. Just because you don’t like his style, doesn’t mean he’s worthless. And the ratings now are higher than when Hunter or HBK where in the top spot. Okay look this could go on all night, should we just try this again next year once Hunter's returned and your focus has corrected?
Linda says: Nice try. The ratings haven't been higher thanks to Cena. They started going up once the Cena/Shawn feud started, so you can thank Michaels for the higher ratings. And yes we shall do this again when hunter returns, so you and I can rave about him.
Lee says: I’ll rave about anyone that does good work. Hang on, by your reasoning doesn’t that also prove that Hunter's absence has drawn a good rating???
Linda says: Well no it doesn't because the ratings didn't go up as soon as he got hurt. It didn't happen that fast. I think you are asking me to piledrive you.
Lee says: Maybe fans were making sure Hunter’s injury wasn’t a storyline before they felt it was safe to start watching Raw again?
Linda says: Or maybe it was that Cena bored the viewers and once Shawn got in there they all came back?
Lee says: Okay well that's enough thinly-veiled dislike for this year. See you next year? or maybe not?
Linda says: Yes you will, it's tradition. I'll see you right here next year after Wrestlemania 24. And maybe next year Cena will be on a nice long vacation.
Lee says: Man will you be pissed if Cena's still champ. Just for you, I hope he is. Cheers.
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